Is anything REALLY ever accepted? It seems that these things get debated at least once ever 12 months or so.
However.... I agree with you.
But I have quite a few sanded joints that are holding up... just fine.
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| Author: | bob J [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:15 pm ] |
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The other thread is full of fantastic info. for using plane and shooting board. How about the sanding method? Do hand plane users believe their system superior? What grits and types of sandpaper are used. This system would seem to be superior to planed (because of simplicity) if results are comparable. Thanks, |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:21 am ] |
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I believe that it's accepted now that a planed or scraped surface provides a stronger glue joint than a sanded wood joint does. I think it's the torn fibres from the sanding that provide a weekness in the joint. Colin |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:38 am ] |
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There is a bit of debate as to if The aluminumoxide may contaminate the joint. I have never had an issue back when I used a sanding bar. I use a plane and shooting board now so that I can set my blade at a slight angel to get a // joint profile. It gives a bit more glued surface area to the joint therefor I feel a bit stronger joint. To me this is one of the things that makes a planed joint superior. grits to use on a sanding bar 80p until very close 100-120p to finish out |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:39 am ] |
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Is anything REALLY ever accepted? It seems that these things get debated at least once ever 12 months or so.
However.... I agree with you. But I have quite a few sanded joints that are holding up... just fine. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:16 am ] |
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For that matter,everyone seems to "poo-poo" using a jointer to make quality glue joints on instruments. I have been using a jointer for 12 years to make joints with what seems to be perfect results. I expect my joints to outlast me. I can join a set in 15 seconds including set-up time. Brad |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:22 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] Is anything REALLY ever accepted? It seems that these things get debated at least once ever 12 months or so.
However.... I agree with you. But I have quite a few sanded joints that are holding up... just fine.[/QUOTE] Evey new batch of new member will always bring up old debates, but that is nothing new to luthierie. there is not much we can discuss that has not been hashed over before. But that is perfectly ok. After all that is why we join togather. You never know when a question from a new member will force each of us to look at our knowlage base form a new light. not to mention the fact that every jem we pass on to a new member will retun 100 fold 
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| Author: | Bobc [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:36 am ] |
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Well I have to agree with Brad on this one. I too have great luck and nice tight joints with my jointer. The key is "proper set up" and sharp blades. May take me 20 seconds. |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:11 am ] |
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We used sandpaper in Harry Fleishman's class and it worked great. I prefer using a handplane now because it's more enjoyable to me to make shavings instead of sawdust. |
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| Author: | chmood [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:44 am ] |
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granted, I'm the newest of the new around here, but it seems pretty clear that each method can be made to give satisfactory results, so it would be a matter of picking a method & learning to do it right, yes? |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:59 am ] |
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Ch Sounds like a fair assesment to me at the end of the day use a jointer,plane, or sandpaper well and you will get a joint which is perfectly suitable for the task. Of course maximum strength that is another discussion.
I couldn't find the post but maybe someone else can link it, AlanC had some information that the joint is stronger if joined straight after preperation. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:09 am ] |
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I've never used a sanding stick for this joint, but can you get a joint as invisible with this method as you can by planing? Whenever I glue sanded surfaces there seems to be a more visible glue line than it would be if it was planed. |
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| Author: | npalen [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:10 am ] |
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I have to agree with Russell's "perfectly suitable for the task". I believe that a decently fitted sanded or planed glue joint will pull wood instead of fracture the glue. Whichever method "floats your boat". Nelson |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:58 am ] |
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Yes, but you must use a precision ground surface for your sanding bar. The plates must join or candle with no gaps to be a good top joint anyway. therefore if properly joined the seam will be dead square. maybe not as invisible as a planed angled joint fit up (ex. //) but still quite good |
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| Author: | bob J [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:30 pm ] |
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Would not sanding down to 800 eliminate the objections to sanding? |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:53 pm ] |
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Perhaps. But I still think sanding's quite a lot slower than setting up a plane and practicing a bit. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:50 am ] |
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Sanding to 800p is way over-kill. If you feel you need beter than 120p then maybe 220 or 320 but 800 is not needed. |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:31 am ] |
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In the Fleishman class we used 80 then finished up with 180. I had trouble finding the glue joint after it was together. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:48 am ] |
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I tend to use all three. When the sides arive, they are rarely close to a straigt edge, I use the jointer (older rockwell beaver 4" which needs some tuning) to get a basic straight edge, than its to the shooting board and a plane. I only have a small jack plane which is obviously to short to run a good edge, but this gets me very close. Than I start to candle and see where the gaps are, mark those out and use the jack plane again to close the gaps, when it is as close as I think I can get, I use a sanding stick with 150 grit on it. |
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